Because He Loves Me: Discussion #4
Submitted by Marcia on November 28, 2011 – 8:19 pm3 Comments
This post covers chapter 4.
Before you read the chapter…
- What kinds of injustice do you hear or read about that really anger you? Why do those things get your emotions aroused?
- When you think about it, whom are you more likely to excuse of sinful behavior: yourself or your children? As mothers and teachers, we have the responsibility to shape young lives. This role can shape us, though, such that we think more of shaping their hearts than of the need for God to shape our hearts. Of which need are you usually more conscious? Are you harder on yourself or your kids, when sinful patterns emerge? Said another way, to whom do you give more grace: you or your kids? And why?Note: This question isn’t answered the same for all of us! Many of us are more merciful to our children than we are to ourselves. Why is that?
After (or while) you read…
- Elyse’s discussion on pages 65-66 really set me up. I was right with her: “Yes! Right! I want justice. I want things to be fair! Why aren’t the guilty punished? Why do the wicked triumph so often?! Did you share my journey? Why is it that we crave justice when others are guilty, but assume that we are innocent until God’s Word convicts us?
- Of course, Elyse’s point is that, in truth, we are the guilty ones. But this is only clear to us when we look at the standards that God created. As long as we look at the world’s standards–look horizontally to see others “worse than” ourselves–we can feel self-righteous and proud. But when we look up to see what Father requires, we are devastated. We see our guilt. What was (and is) God’s answer to that problem of guilt? (See and savor pages 69-70 on this one.)
- “The Father poured out all his wrath on his Son. There is no more left for you or me” (70). Look up 1 John 1:9. “…He is faithful and just…” Why does God forgive us of our sins? To whom is He being just?
- Does the message of this chapter fill you with hope? For a long time, the idea of union with Christ–of God counting His life as mine–was elusive. I just couldn’t get it to be real for me. I felt it was some kind of a legal fiction. Recently, though, a new picture has really helped me. It’s the idea of a joint bank account with a husband who’s a multi-billionaire. You know, if you were married to an insanely rich man, you would have a joint bank account. There would literally be NO WAY to spend all his money. You could spend money from morning until night and never overdraw the account. All the power, prestige, luxury, ease, and peace that the money could buy would be yours–not because you alone were anything, but because you were his wife. In the same way, our union with Christ brings us unsearchable riches that are inexhaustible. We are the bride and the beloved of Christ, the Son of God, the coming King, the Center of All Creation, the Lamb who was slain. He had given us union with Him, and it is for this reason that the Father gives us standing: love, acceptance, grace, and no more wrath. The wrath has been spent; the bank account of grace is full. We, the beloved of God, are His and we derive all of our worth, ease, peace, and safety from being His!
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I have been asking myself the same questions you did, for almost 6...
1. Injustice- No, nothing really makes me mad ( except disrespect from my children).. I have become aware that maybe I don’t understand things… Over 70 percent of the kids are on free lunch at our school.. I know one of them and the way they spend their money just doesn’t make sense… I wish all children had a decent chance.. The cycles of poverty seem to be unbreakable..
2. Grace… I have none. For me most of all… I should be perfect. Period. No excuses. My children should do likewise.
Love..ok, I was taught that Love is a verb..it isn’t what you say, it is what you do. I go to church if I love God, I help others because I love God.. Truthfully, though, it would be nice to feel love.
This quotation spoke to me:
I’ve been astounded at the number of times this kind of idea has come up. It’s as though these people, Christians all, think that God felt some sort of obligation to save them but that he really doesn’t like them very much. It’s as though they think they’re part of his family but suspect that if God could sit them in a corner with a dunce cap on, he’d happily do so.
That is exactly how I feel. I know God saved me because he had to because he is God, but I know he doesn’t like me…
Then she says this:
Because God has accredited or imputed Jesus’ perfect obedience to you, when God looks upon you, he sees you as a person who
• always does the things that are pleasing to him;
• is so focused on accomplishing his will and work that doing so is your daily food;
• doesn’t seek your own will but seeks his will instead;
• doesn’t seek to receive glory (praise, respect, worship) from others;
• has always kept all his commandments;
• lives in such a way that your life brings holiness to others;
• loves others and lays down your life on a consistent basis;
• lives in such a way that the people around you know that you love your heavenly Father more than anything else;
• seeks to obey every command so that righteousness will be fulfilled.
In God’s opinion (the only one that matters!) that’s your record today. One time during a conversation with a friend about these truths, she asked, “Isn’t God just kidding himself?” I was glad to hear that question because it let me know that she was dealing with the full implications of grace and justification. These truths ought to astound us.
I’m sorry but he cannot be God if he sees me that way. I am absolutely none of those things. If he sees me that way then he cannot see. It just doesn’t make sense. I keep hearing that by being a Christian I should magically WANT to do all of those things.. No, not really. I try… I try to FEEL the love of Christ and try to do them in His name, but I fail so miserably and am basically the same worthless person he saved at 13.
You mention 1 John 9, but did you notice what comes immediately after???
1 John 1:9–2:6 (NIV84)
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
2 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4 The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
I’ve tried and failed for what nearly 25years to walk as Jesus did, so I am a liar…
You wrote above: “2. Grace… I have none. For me most of all… I should be perfect. Period. No excuses. My children should do likewise.”
Yet, grace is a huge theme of the Bible. Have you ever studied it? What does the word even mean, in biblical context?
You also wrote: “I know God saved me because he had to because he is God, but I know he doesn’t like me…”
* How do you know these things, since they are antithetical to the Bible’s message?
* God did NOT have to save mankind; He did not owe rebels anything but death through justice. God CHOSE to come after sinful people at a heartbreaking cost: the Innocent seeking the guilty to be reconciled (2 Cor. 5:21).
* It is only by grace that we are saved: Ephesians 2:4-9 (ESV; my emphases in caps) But God, being rich in MERCY, because of the great LOVE with which he loved us [YOU and ME, PERSONALLY], even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ— by GRACE you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his GRACE in KINDNESS toward us in Christ Jesus. For by GRACE you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the GIFT of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
* Romans 8:29-32 (ESV; my emphases in caps.) For those whom he FOREKNEW [each of us personally] he also predestined … And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is FOR US, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously GIVE us all things?
* John 16:27 (ESV; my emphases in caps.) [Jesus said] “For the Father himself LOVES YOU, because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.”
So often I’ve heard of the “great saints” who really walk closely with God and how if they don’t sense God’s presence, they’ve done something to change that -sin ,etc. Their closeness to God was based on their actions. But, it seems as if Elyse is saying our justification is complete – God sees us as He sees Jesus – someone who’s heart is always for God. So, should we be focusing not on what we are doing wrong, but who we are in Christ? Is this what Elyse is saying? Focus on what Christ has done for us when we fail? I like what she said here, “If godliness before him is what I’m really after, than one look at the cross and empty tomb would suffice. But I can see that I’m frequently more concerned about whether I approve of myself than the fact that he approves of me.”
Like Elizabeth, I grew up being very law above grace. The church I went to constantly put before me (in my eyes at least) the angry God whose wrath wanted to wipe me out because of my sin which was constantly before me. Jesus came to shield me from his father. It took a long time to know in my heart that my father in heaven loved me. It’s been many years to take those thoughts away yet I still feel guilty mostly for the things I know I should do, but do not do.
I still feel some responsibility to do good – because it is what God requires of me(?). It’s the motivation thing — what is really motivating me? Guilt. Sometimes it seems as if my life is pushing me into a box where I can’t be all the things I think I should be. It’s stripping me of the “doing” wheel (maybe it’s a box of God’s grace?). “Doing” so that I can show God I love him. I’m not sure where that leads me. There’s a lot of “shoulds” in my life.